David Nour 00:02
Hi everybody, David Nour with my business partner Jenn Cordz. Hello, Jenn.
Jenn Cordz 00:07
Hi, Nour, how are you?
David Nour 00:08
I’m great, thanks. For our audience, it’s good to be back with you for another episode of our weekly live stream. We call this Intelligent Growth. And the focus is, as an individual, as a team, as an organization, how do you consistently, how do you proactively, dare I say, how do you predictably, think about your personal growth, the team’s growth, organizational or enterprise growth in an intelligent and profitable manner. So Jenn and I have been a student of this idea of a customer lifecycle journey. Really, for the last 18 months, we’ve dove deep into critical success factors in each phase of it.
And the intent of the sessions, and we’re live on Facebook and LinkedIn and YouTube and Twitter, is to not just share ideas, but I’m hoping we’re hoping you’ll jump in as well with your questions, comments. And let’s really help disseminate what we’re thinking of what we’re seeing the ideas, the perspectives on what it takes, particularly in the post-pandemic, you know, constantly volatile world, and how to grow, how to grow personally how to grow as a team, how to grow as an organization, Zamick is always always reliable from Azerbaijan joining us. Hello, Zamick. Good to see you. Good to have you. So Jenn, we’re going to talk about a topic that’s near and dear to both of our hearts as we’re also going through this exercise, which is all about branding.
Jenn Cordz 01:39
Yes. So last week, your newest book, Relationship Economics three came out is made from mint green color.
David Nour 01:48
Mint green is in!
Jenn Cordz 01:52
And in leading up to that release. And then last week, and then carrying through to this week, we’ve been diving into specific topics within the book. And this week, we’re going to take people through their relationship brand, and their familiarity with that brand, both from a professional perspective as well as a personal perspective. So for the audience that may not have joined us in the past couple weeks, can you give a quick overview on what Relationship Economics in the third edition is about and what people can learn from reading the book?
David Nour 02:25
Sure. So let’s say this has been my life’s work for the last 20 years. And you’ve heard me talk about becoming a student of business relationships, right? If you just forget the title, forget the concept for a second, why do we got to stop calling it a soft skill, because we’ve proven particularly particularly after the last three years of this global pandemic, the way you engage the way you influence, the way you relate the way you nurture connections with others, will be critical to your personal and professional success. So at the basic level, Relationship Economics is about how to turn everyday contacts into valuable business relationships. Now, I published the first edition of this book in 2008. Subsequent edition by Wiley, you know, the second edition and 2012 at about 40% new content. This, this one I completely rewrote.
I kept some of the nuggets that were battled tested, proven. We knew that worked, we had implemented them and global client companies, I took out other parts that weren’t as useful, or it’s amazing. I have a mentor says “Amazing how stupid I was two days ago,” right? It just, you know, the things you learn, the hypothesis you create, that are just not valid, or you test them and they don’t really produce the results, you’re after the research. And the data shows you something very differently. So this completely new third edition is really for the post-pandemic world. It’s really about this constant state of, dare I say burnout, many of us find ourselves in that constant anxiety. I’m being asked to do more with less. I’m being asked to do more in an uncertain economic, and geopolitical environment. So how do we do that? How do we identify and nurture great relationships that become impactful in our work, in our lives? And that’s really what this, this book is about.
So the readers are going to take away what I call the elevator ride. I think the theoretical constructs are important to understand where they come from. But at some point, you got to really think about application examples, stories that are in here, and then implementation. What do I do with it? If I’m a front line contributor or I’m an HR professional or a project management professional or a sales or marketing professional, all the way up to a manager leader. How do I leverage these ideas to improve the way I connect the way I engage the way and influence others, often without authority?
Jenn Cordz 05:20
That all seems very applicable to today’s world for sure. And one of the things that comes within the book are really great illustrations by our creative director, Lin Wilson. And he’s created, it’s the cover there’s illustrations all the way through the book that helped convey some of these ideas. And one of the things that you and Lin worked on creating were tactical templates, if you will, for these different ideas so people can implement them in their day to day. So talk about the different sections of the book, specifically related to relationships and how somebody can leverage them to get started with understanding their strategic relationships.
David Nour 06:01
No question. And thanks for pointing that out. I write books. Whether it’s this one or current vendors right before this, or, you know, Co-Create before that one. I write books the way I like to read them, and full disclosure for our audience, I have a bias for action. So I love reading about something. But at the end of the day, I’m going through the three fundamental questions, what, what am I reading? Why is it important? Why is it valuable? Right? So what? How is it relevant? How can I use this? What can I go do with this? And then now what, what will I choose to go apply? Go implement, go test, go try, go share with others. So and that’s also the elevator ride that I mentioned earlier.
So throughout the book, not only if you think about, I opened it up with this idea of welcome to hybrid relationships, what we hear about hybrid work. But have you ever thought about hybrid relationships, which is your physical ones, you and I’m meeting in person shaking hands, looking at the AI having a meal or coffee or write the in person, the virtual or digital relationships, people we’ve never met, but we meet through these Hollywood Squares and kind of interact with work with colleagues, customers, vendors, and then increasingly global relationships, that, you know, you have no idea how somebody on the other parts of the world are going to impact and have an influence on or be very relevant to what you’re doing. And I’ve learned that from my involvement with thinker’s 50 or the Marshall Goldsmith mg 100 community or, you know, really understanding how are other parts of the world. Our way is not the only way.
And increasingly, that global perspective global lens helps you better understand and really elevate your empathy versus your ego. Of how do other people get things done. So hybrid relationships, then I talk about why networking is one letter away from not working, and why most transactional networking doesn’t work. I talk about growth and business relationships a big part. And obviously, that’s important to us. I talked about and we’ve done previous episodes on six phases of strategic relationships. And this idea of last week, we did the strategic relationship planning, and really, you know, documenting why can become a learned skill, and ideally, part of the culture or fabric of the organization. And what’s really cool about this brand conversation and how familiar people are with your personal brand, or your leadership brand, is that it contributes to, as I said, your personal growth, the team’s growth, the organization kind of maturity, and it impacts your reputation, and it impacts the long term viability of your relationships.
Jenn Cordz 08:55
Thanks makes sense. So diving into brand specifically, everybody now has brands that they know and love from for motorcycling. I mean, you’re a huge Ducati and BMW fan. Why? Why did you choose those brands? Like just sort of start surface level? Like why did you choose those? And how did you land on them as being your favorites?
David Nour 09:19
I could, I could also point to you and your fly fishing, fish pond and and the expensive hobby that I’ve gotten into that arena. So for most of us, we, we hear of a brand. Right? And, you know, if we, and you’ve seen me talk about that, they experience journey, if you will, in some ways that we’re always evaluating as human beings. And this is really important for the audience to understand. I want you to think of an infinity loop. And at the center is evaluation. We’re always evaluating different aspects of my life, right? I, my car I’ve had for too many years, I am, you know, we’re running out of room, you know, as we have, you know, a child or second child in the house, we live in my clothes, you know. And again, you also, you start to see there’s awareness for different things, right? So we’re always evaluating, then we start to really focus in, really hone in on combination of, and it’s a really discovery process. What is it that I’m looking for? What is it that I think I need? What is it that I’m looking for in that next car, or that next house or that next relationship. Then we evaluate our options, I could go buy a brand new car, go buy a used car, I could get an SUV and get a sports car.
So there’s always options. And we also have the same options in our relationships. I could work with this person in finance or really spend time with that person in marketing. I can work with this contact in our procurement, or I can work with an outside vendor to get what I need done. So we’re always evaluating our options. And we come back to the center, we’ll come back to really kind of really honing in on: what am I really focused on? What’s working for me? What’s not working for me? What, what do I want more or less of, and the relationships and the interactions that I have, and I work with on a regular basis. So that journey is, seems to be an ongoing one. In that in that evaluation, and that progression, if you will, then again, you’ve heard me say this, then at some point we buy, and it’s not just buying products and services, we buy information. We buy credibility. We buy believability.
Jenn is really knowledgeable about this RevOps space. And she knows processes like customer lifecycle journey and she knows tech stack, like my HubSpot should be tied to my Salesforce that should be tied to our customer service environment, right? Then we use, we interact, we use the product. So I ride a BMW motorcycle, and I see that it’s reliable, and it’s got power, it’s got and I feel there’s an emotional connection. I feel good about riding fast around a track or riding far with a touring bike. So as we use it, we come back to evaluation. Now, we’re not only familiar with that brand, we now start to build preferences.
And Jenn, this is exactly the same way as we interact with people. Sociologists tell us when we meet somebody else, we give a little, they take, they judge, they give a little, we take, we judge, we give a little back. Too much, too fast. And you’re like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, dude, we just met, right? You’re thinking that person is just overbearing, too little and you think that they’re distant? Or they’re hiding something? Or why are they cold? There’s a layman’s terms, right? So the goal is this natural interaction. As we get to know them beyond the contact. We work with them. We look for opportunities to work with them. And we see and this is a couple of points I want to really emphasize. We see how they show up. We see what matters to them.
We observe their behaviors in those interactions, good people, and I learned this from interestingly enough, a good friend and one of my clients, Bill Hogan, always assume good intent. So good people, good intent. How do they show up? Are our values aligned? Are our objectives, outcomes, desires, outcomes aligned? Do we feel encouraged, supported, bolstered by being around this person? Do we feel value in interacting with this person? And that’s when we make the decision of, I’m going to be proactive, I’m gonna pursue, I’m gonna invest in, I’m gonna pour love and support into this person. Or you know what, again, layman’s terms, that person’s not my cup of tea.
Or you know what, I don’t have time for his drama. I don’t have time for her baggage. And there’s a expression that you know, Jennifer Bridges, longtime friend and a partner over at PDX used to go, I love her expression. It’s a southern expression for the rest of the audience that says, if I’m not saying it, my face is showing it. And most people don’t want to be confrontational. They don’t want to highlight something that disappoints them. So what do they do? They really they just kind of disengage, they revert back to their comfort zone and the relationship ecosystem with which they feel valued and good use of the time and, and that’s when they stop returning calls and emails. That’s where they don’t really see the value in interacting with you.
Jenn Cordz 14:52
Makes sense. So by defining like, company brands, that’s kind of an understood part practice in the industry, and we all kind of understand what brands are and what makes them what I guess what makes them. Great. And they always are trying to refine that for everybody. Why is it so for individuals, you talked about how it’s important for their ecosystem and growing their relationships. Now, there’s this other part of it that you mentioned in the book about insistence on capabilities and an insistence on the manner in which you build these relationships. So can you talk about the difference between just the relationships from like a technical perspective? And then also the insistence on the strategic relationships?
David Nour 15:46
Yeah, great point. So again, for the audience, if you have the book, if you don’t have the book, you were on a ear mark, page 160. Top of Page 160. Is that is a great illustration. And again, as Jenn mentioned, Lin Wilson is our creative director, and what I love about working with Lin, as I tell him, Lin, here’s what I’m thinking. And he’s masterful at taking all these ideas and discerning them into these great visuals. And the easiest way to describe this, this creating brand insistence is really a stair step. So if you think about, you know, you brought up motorcycles or in your world fly fishing. First thing is, is we have to have some sort of awareness. So again, for individuals, individuals, within teams, teams within organizations, what are you doing to create awareness? For your unique value add? What are you doing to create awareness for unique skill, your approach to solving problems, your technical skills, have, you know, we’ve worked with law firms, and that person knows more about, you know, IP law than anybody else.
We’ve worked with engineering firms, that person knows more about environmental engineering than anything, anybody else, but didn’t get there overnight. So they create. And this is, this is counterintuitive for some people, because I think most of our parents taught us to be humble, and practice humility. And we’re also big believers that, by the same token, I’m going to reiterate something that coach Alan Weiss drove into me, “if you don’t toot your own horn, there is no music.” Yes. So the reason you and I write articles, the reason we publish, I’ve got my next Forbes article coming out this week. And the reason we do this live stream is you got to share, you got to create awareness, without wearing your eagerness on your sleeve. Without you know, promoting without coming across as a jerk, right? Have you met people who do a really good job, and they want to make sure they tell you that you’re really good job, and they’re very good at doing a good job.
And they, in every conversation, every conversation, right? It’s all about them. 365 days, but enough about you, let’s talk about me. So you got to create awareness. Then the next stair step is relevant differentiation. Differentiation for second differentiation could be I could show up in a purple wig. How’s that relevant to the needs of your target? Audience target relationships, this is not a sales thing. This is how well you understand my audience. How well am I relating to the needs of my audience? Because only when I demonstrate relevant differentiation we all tend to bucket people anyway. Right?
Is that person an accountant or is their attorney forget that the fact that they are IP attorneys for startups in the cybersecurity, they’re an attorney, we bucket people. So that relevant differentiation leads people to bucket you in the right bucket and really helps you people. Okay, who do I know? Who’s an attorney first, and it goes macro to micro right? Oh, I need an IP attorney. Oh, I need an IP attorney who understands startups and has direct and relevant experience and working with founders. You see how that kind of funnels down so relevant differentiation, then the next stair step is value. Does notice I didn’t say cheapest cost? I’ve never met anyone who’s always looking for the cheapest attorney, or cheapest surgeon or cheapest mechanic. Nobody looks for the cheapest.
Jenn Cordz 19:32
Well, I mean, they might look for the cheapest but it’s that that triangle: you either haven’t, can have good cheap or quick. You only can have two of the three you can’t have all three.
David Nour 19:40
And looking for cheapest always comes back and bites us absolutely because I got the cheapest painter and Damn, we’re gonna have to paint this place all over again. Or I got the cheapest carpenter and I’m pretty sure this is how they measured. You know, was it straight I was. So what we all look for is value, which is really an vestment versus, you know, the cost versus what do I perceive to be the value in return? Then is it accessibility? Is it convenient? Is it you know, could I? Could I get to an expert? Or can I get to someone that attorney is, you know, either pain to work were to make me jumps through hoops. So I’ve never, this is more your world than mine. I’ve never understood companies that want to talk to my third grade teacher. So I can download a position paper. Like, I really, are you that desperate for my name and email that you got to put it, you got to make me jump through a bunch of hoops to get that information.
And I’m not downloading anything because I’m bored. I’m downloading that position paper, white paper kind of methodology. The other thing I don’t like is you’ve been around me long enough fluff pieces. How often do we download? They they sell it with a whole bunch of sizzle of this thing is kind of going to change your world? And you downloaded like, Wait, where’s the old? The old thing? Was Wendy’s at with it with older ladies? Where’s the beef? Where’s the meat in this paper that you’ve promised? Because it’s not actionable? I can’t do anything with it.
And last but not least, as I mentioned this earlier, emotional connection. Does it resonate? Does it resonate? Does it I have an emotional connection to BMW and Ducati that I ride? Because it represents me. I use an Apple product, because it represents kind of the conveniences and the cachet, in some ways, that emotional connection to me. And, and so this idea of creating brand insistence, all the research, all the conversations, beyond our affinity for things, our affinity for experiences, we also develop an affinity for people. And that’s really what I wanted to focus based on that macro level view to more micro.
Jenn Cordz 22:01
Makes sense. And in the book, one of the things that you stress is building a preference for your technical skills. Because a lot of people for example, can do RevOps work. But how easy are you to work with? Or what is your value add? Like? What is your depth of experience and or knowledge that gives you that edge over somebody else? Who may do similar work like an accountant? Can they make sense out of your chicken scratch back of the napkin receipts without a whole bunch of hassle? Or do they make you jump through a bunch of hoops? So it’s really that soft skill? If you will? That’s not exactly a soft skill that makes people want to work with you. Is that accurate?
David Nour 22:46
You’re exactly right. And I want the audience to think about a second. Some brands, we just reject, right? I don’t like Hunts Ketchup. Sorry, as an example, I my preference is high airline, that we just, certain airlines that will go unnamed I will not fly, right? Certain rental car companies I will not use in our travels, right? So certain brands will do this, we reject. Certain brands, we just don’t recognize. I’ve never heard of right, XYZ, other brands and I’m going again, up a curve. This is a spectrum, right? Other brands we recognize and have heard good things about oh, I’ve never owned, right that brand or driven that kind of car, but I’ve heard good things about him from friends from word of mouth from articles, we’ve read from reviews from whatever right.
Next Level is we start to build a preference as we use, as we have some experience with, we build a preference, I prefer this brand versus other options. The very pinnacle of this curve of this trajectory of this spectrum is an insistence I insist on because, right, these things, and my coaching and you’ve heard me talk to leaders about this and certainly leadership programs, particularly if you’re in a technical field, whatever that technical field is, and you brought up RevOps, right, you and I’ve met some really sharp RevOps people who you’re right, know Salesforce, know Gong, know 6sense, know all these tools. And yet they’re really difficult to work with.
Or you ask him a question and you can’t get a straight answer back, are you, they get just buried in the weeds or they can’t really articulate the so one of why these things matter and how do we get the most out of them and so my coaching to every individual and particularly the listeners of the audience here, you want to build a preference for your technical skills. And that conversation sounds like we really want John, want. Preference, we really want John. Because he’s a phenomenal project manager, if you think about project management is a technical skill, right? predominately, or we want Steve, because unbelievable engineer
Jenn Cordz 25:36
Well, sometimes that preference trumps the technical skill, because they are so great to work with, maybe they have a deficiency, and I don’t know in the project management, like they can’t keep deadlines, or they’re kind of disorganized, but not in a sense that is detrimental to the project. But in a sense that other people could do it better, but they don’t want other people because this guy is so great to work with.
David Nour 26:02
I love it. I love it. You’re You’re kind of your your head of the bus, and I’m getting there. But here’s why. So if I build a preference for my technical skills, they’re comfortable with what I can bring that’s relevant to what that manager, leader, team is looking for. You want to build an insistence for exactly what you said, the way that person builds relationships, the way that person treats others, the way that person influences others, those human skills, those cultural skills, those highly adaptive skills in any environment, throw the technical skills and an uncomfortable environment. And though calm everybody down, it’s okay. It’s cool. We’re gonna breathe, we’re gonna get through this, we’ll work through it. And, and I gotta tell you, I this this idea came to me years ago, I didn’t get it, then full disclosure, but I get it now.
You know, I’ve played soccer for a lot of years. And I was a defender. And back there, the goalie is a defenders, gotta best friend because they’re behind you, they see kind of what’s happening. And goalies who are panicked, kind of create panic defenses, right? Everything is an emergency, oh my god, here comes the guy in the wing. And, you know, you just, they’re gonna, they’re gonna win, they’re gonna, they’re gonna win this whole thing, because goalies and other players back there who are calm, cool, collected, they communicate, they watch, they listen, they certainly support data on the field doing a great job on that last run. They bolster, they, they encourage they not just collaborate, but they demonstrate a vested interest in your success. They don’t, when you get scored on, they don’t panic, they don’t. Those people make the game that much more fun, make it more.
And that exact same thing happens in offices. cool, calm, collected, right, the way they engage the way they nurture the way they bring teams together, the way they present. Even most difficult, Jenn had been in meetings where the person presenting some really bad news, right? We lost this much money, we screwed up on this project. This process broke, we embarrassed ourselves in front of a client, we I mean, you name it, I’ve seen it right. The manner with which they carry themselves determines their attitude, determines their mobility, determines you remember so and so we met at that meeting or that event? That would be fantastic for this situation. Because not just a technical skills, we need the tech but I don’t want to take anything away from that. Right? You have to know RevOps, you have to know project management, you have to know engineering. Right? It’s it’s it’s really a, again, a preference for you, but I can find other people to do that. The insistence is I want you. We have to have Beth, on this team. Because she speaks not just technology. She also speaks marketing. She speaks finance. She can relate to that remote office or the warehouse and the supply chain challenges they’re having and that ability to connect at a human level is what sets everybody apart.
Jenn Cordz 29:48
Makes sense. So in the book, we do talk about the levels of your relationship brand familiarity, and you’ve created a chart and sort of a template that people can leverage to To help familiarize themselves with that, and work through some of the initial foundation work as they learn about their strategic relationships. Can you talk about that and how somebody can leverage it in their day to day?
David Nour 30:15
Absolutely. So just beyond talking about it, I thought would also give you a chance and the audience that a chance to show this. So this is a series of exercises that are for our audience, we encourage you to come join us. And nourgroup.com/forum, that’s our private online community. There’s an RE3 launch group. This is where I share unique content and unique experiences. And within this environment, we’ve created several exercises. So we talked generally talked about relationships, strategic planning last time, you know, there’s design thinking and strategic relationships. This is the one that that is most relevant to this conversation, which is, as I said, earlier, at the bottom, there’s some things we just we just reject, right? There’s some brands that we’re not as excited about, we’re not, as you know, it’s not as instrumental in kind of what we’re trying to do.
And I’m going to turn off some of these other things, you can see the whole, so the bottom is rejection, then the next one is kind of non rejection, which is kind of not aware of them, then Association recognition, we’re aware of them, as I mentioned. Then this preference that kind of comes up, and then the very top is insistence. And in this particular exercise, and we do this with with individuals and with teams, I asked you a series of questions, which is number one, what are the behavior characteristics, you associate with each of these attributes? So what what have you observed. Relationships are a big part of it is our observations of how others show up. So what behaviors? Do others demonstrate that you just reject? What are they doing? What are they? Right? What do they do that makes you cringe? What it does manager or leader or any of your colleagues? Or have you been in a meeting with a partner? Or a customer when that when the other side says something? Like? I can’t believe they just said that? Or how tone deaf do you have to be? Or how, you know coolest?
Do you have to be in this environment to say something like that, right? It just demonstrates poor judgment demonstrates lack of just really understanding of your audience and your surroundings. And so what are the again, behaviors that you associate or you recognize preference? What what behaviors do other people demonstrate that you have a preference for? And then certainly last but not least insistence? Second question. How do you generally show up today? And why? Now, some will say it depends. If it’s a group, I don’t like, I’m going to be a jerk and a half. Conversely, if it’s a group I’m trying to impress, I’m going to be, you know, my Sunday best, and I’m going to be on my best behavior. And that’s what I said.
Generally, if I would take all of that holistically, how would you? Where would you show up? What do you consistently show up? And then third, if we asked others, how would they describe your brand, your personal, your technical, your professional? How would they describe it? And again, how do you know, Jenn, here’s the other thing that people just blindly guess at this stuff. I keep coming back to how do you know? How do you know that’s how you proceed because you can’t do anything about perceptions. You don’t understand, you can do anything about information, your stance. So really critical to think through these. And the last but not least, is this idea of again, you know me, I’m a big believer of 30, 60, 90 Day plans, your personal branding plan. Where, where should you focus? How do you enhance, how do you amplify, how do you elevate your brand, because that’s what people are going to notice. That’s what they’re going to keep coming back to. That’s what they’re gonna really value and kind of how you show up.
Jenn Cordz 34:23
So related to the question of how you, how do you know, previously, you’ve mentioned asking others and doing kind of a survey, would you say that in this exercise as well, you should go on what you’ve called before learning listening tour.
David Nour 34:40
That’s exactly right. So I’m a big believer of I know this will come as a shock to you. I’m a list maker, full disclosure, everybody. Hi, my name is David Nour. I’m a list maker. Hi, David. Yeah, make a list. Make a list of your top 10 relationships. Make a list of your Top 30, Top 50 relationships that you like, you trust and you respect and go to them and ask questions like. What do you perceive that I do exceptionally well? What do you perceive to be some of my growing edges? If these are people you like, and you respect and you trust, hopefully drive the job problem I’m telling you. Nour you are one of the most, I’m making this up, you’re one of the most driven people we know as bad about that one happens to be true, right? By the same token, you have a tendency to ruffle some feathers in how you move through that topic through the space through that environment.
Okay, I can’t do anything about it. If I don’t know it’s happening. This is, I believe, one of the biggest growth opportunities for all of us, which is not a switch. It’s a dial, dial up our self awareness. Dial up how we show up every single day, how do you show up to every interaction? Jenn, you’ve heard me talk about this. I deeply believe that every interaction, every interpersonal interaction online, in person in particular, is a learning and growth opportunity. How do you show up? How do they perceive you showed up? Did you do your homework? Were you at your best before during after? Did you ask intelligent questions? Were you open to new ideas and perspectives? Did you leave them feeling that they were better off because you were in a relationship together.
And you and I talked to a lot of clients about ICP ideal customer profile. I’m a big believer of ideal relationship profiles. Is this individual, is this team, is this a company that I want to associate with? I want to build, now I don’t need a relationship with a guy who bags my groceries, right? There’s certain things in our lives, certain individuals that are highly transactional, that’s okay. But if I’m working with someone day in and day out, if I want to call them a customer and take care of them, like a customer, if I want to, if I believe that there are a strategic partner to my to my business, I’m going to prioritize them. I’m going to pour love and support into them, I’m going to demand that likewise, they show up and they show up consistently, I’m going to give every engagement and every opportunity, my best you’ve you and I’ve talked to our team about things do not go out of here without our names attached to them. Because that’s the sign of pride of kind of what we do and how we do and how we show up.
Jenn Cordz 37:53
Absolutely. And you’ve also said many times how you do everything is how you do anything, is how you do everything. And so being consistent in the way that you show up is really important to just further reinforcing the brand that you are willing to create. So you talked about teams and developing brands within companies. One of the things that we talk about is driving intelligent and profitable growth, which a lot of times is interconnectivity of teams within a business. So how can this exercise be applicable to teams to develop either better relationships with others within their organization or helping them drive that growth in a way that is profitable for everybody?
David Nour 38:38
I’m gonna, I’m gonna reference something that a recent friend but a very valuable friend, Jonathan Bell at WANT branding, talked to us about our last Relationship Economic Summit. I love his definition of a brand. It’s it’s it’s the branding is about two things: getting customers to buy, and something that employees believe. I love this, I can’t, I can’t take credit for it, Jonathan Bell, WANT branding. If I bring that now to relationships, if I bring that to what people can do, and hopefully take away not just from the book, but this session on every one of our conversations is that there’s no relationship between logos. There’s absolutely no relationship between buildings, or org structures. It’s always between individuals. And again, I am a coach at heart. I’m an advisor, what I coach advise people to think about is if what I perceive of you online is not aligned with who shows up. Right? When we’re in person. So so online, offline, if it’s not in line with If you’re going to create a disconnect, wait, that person seems really friendly. And on every Zoom meeting or every, and I meet him in person on the complete jerk. I know, we can all have bad days. But you see what I’m saying it’s a disconnect, right?
Or that person seem really knowledgeable and ask great questions in that meeting. And this last Zoom, they were just full of themselves, and they had all the answers. And, again, if there’s a disconnect, people are gonna get really confused about which Jekyll and Hyde is going to show up. So get very consistent on values that are important to you get very consistent in what you believe in. People talk a lot about organizations purpose, I think purpose is bi directional. Does the company understand why you’re there? And are you crystal clear on what the company expects of you? And what’s their purpose? Because if again, if it’s not aligned, it’s going to create friction disconnect. And you there’s a lot you cannot control. You have to focus on the things you can control, which is you said it, how do I show up? How do I do anything? And you’re exactly right. I I’m a, I’m a flag carrying advocate of this, when it comes to professionalism when it comes to what you do professionally. How you do anything is how you do everything. And none of us are perfect.
This isn’t about being perfect. This is about continuous improvement. This is about version one is better than version, none. This is about learning and growing through that process. But at some point, ideally, you take on less ideally, you do less ideally, you commit less ideally, you do fewer things, but commit to doing those fewer things exceptionally well. That’s when you start to narrow. Who are my ideal relationship profiles? Who are the types of people I want to work with, I want to associate with, I want to be teammates with, I want to work with, who are the individual leaders that I believe in, and I’ll follow I’ll go to a wall for that person. Or you know what, that person’s a jerk, there is no way I’m gonna do anything for them. So those are the things that come into play as individuals, as teams as organization, when it comes to branding and modeling the right relationship behaviors.
Jenn Cordz 42:33
Well, I think that’s applicable to almost any industry and any profession, that what we call in marketing niching down on it is really focusing on the things that only you can do really well and contribute to and get really good at, and it’s becoming a mile deep and an inch wide versus a mile wide and an inch deep. And so with that in mind, like what would you say is the key takeaway, or the action item that you’d love people to see from today’s episode on developing their brand familiarity?
David Nour 43:09
So I again, I would done we got a great comment from our LinkedIn user that just want to jump in and address real quick. So thanks, thanks for jumping in, I would argue you need to have an idea also toward relationships, that may not be as consistent or easy, because there’s growth opportunities there unequivocally yes. I’ve also, you know, probably a topic for another session. But I’ve also believed that a certain dose of respectful pushback is healthy. A certain dose of respectful debate is really healthy and business relationships. If I’m not at attacking the individual, you never attacked the individual. You attack the ideas, you attack the process, you attack, the manner which kind of we get there to improve it is it has got to be that good intent, it has to be that transparency that says I’m asking to clarify, I’m asking to ensure we put our best foot forward. And those are critical. So thanks for jumping in. And it says LinkedIn user, if you’re not connected to Nour Group if you’re not following Nour Group, just generically LinkedIn says LinkedIn user. So thank you, for one thing, and
Jenn Cordz 44:20
one of those things is the healthy debate and healthy disagreement. Also can help create a better idea. If you have a lot of people around you are working on a specific project that affectionally they’re all yes, people. Oh, yeah, that’s awesome. Like, let’s keep going whatever. And nobody’s looking at poking holes in it. It’s not necessarily going to be as robust as it could be. And so having somebody maybe it’s an assigned somebody of in this project, I need you to try and find the faults of what we’re trying to achieve. And then that’ll help you plug those gaps before you roll out whatever where it is you’re doing. And it helps you see the deficiencies that you may have been blind to before and it and it all is within good intent and occasionally that that healthy debate doesn’t change the outcome or the direction of what you’re doing. But at least you had that conversation and you evaluated it in a way that’s deeper than just surface level.
David Nour 45:23
And just to build on the comment from the last last person who jumped in, you know, you have an eye on towards relationship that may not be as consistent. I will try to find out why. And I had somebody do this with me this past week, right? Shall we all get, as I said, we’re all working progress. I had someone who I consider a friend and a colleague, you know, bring up that the last time we interacted Mia culpa, right, I didn’t follow up, I didn’t deliver on the commitments I made in that meeting right out. And again, as he said, I get it, you got busy, we write books, we cater to clients that have internal challenges, who doesn’t. So build relationships, who don’t mind sharing that candor, in your growing edges, they are not dragging your mother into it, they’re not dragging your family heritage into it. They’re not personally attacking you. If someone says, Listen, Nour, you know, you’re very good at what you do. But you may rub some people the wrong way, or the way you connected with Chris, or the way you dismissed Chris, in the last meeting probably wasn’t the brand. I love this, this phrase, that’s probably not the brand that you want. That’s probably not the leadership brand that you’re after, that’s probably not on brand, for you, as a leader, as a teammate, as a project lead as whatever. And if you appeal to people’s logical self interest, our research shows this, our experience shows this that they’re much more likely to listen, hear it, hopefully internalize it. And it impacts the way to kind of show up the next time.
Jenn Cordz 47:11
Yes, and it’s not always an easy thing to hear or internalize. But if you go with an open mind, and again, assuming good intent, it’ll help anybody grow within their, their personal or professional.
David Nour 47:26
I want to I want to build on that. If, if they don’t, number one, I try to stay away from unsolicited advice, right? So. So it’s just like, we all have opinions. And most most people don’t care. So and that’s something I suggest to others just kind of stay away from unsolicited advice. Or you could ask permission, hey, may I may, I might provide some input, or we’re gonna give you some. I like the idea of an alias for Marshall Goldsmith feet forward, feedback is not as helpful as feet forward, how can you take this in a constructive, positive way? Move forward with it. So ask permission? Are you open to some coaching? Are you open to something that I’ve observed? And most people who benefit genuinely value personal professional growth? would say, yes, they may not.
And you said it, it’s really hard to hear who who likes being told you’re screwed up or you didn’t do something well, or and and you and I attend the same church, and our pastor right now is talking about words have, you know, they’re weighty, and they matter? And right, who doesn’t? You know, who gets excited about being told that you screwed that one up? Right. So it’s, it’s difficult, always difficult to hear. Yet, that’s where professional maturity comes from. That’s where that growth mindset comes from. That’s where I genuinely want the best version of me to show up consistently, because I know it’s there. And I want to tap into it with the right skills, the right behaviors, the right relationship ecosystem, that that bolsters me towards greater success, not anchors me or drags me down. And I don’t feel like I’m better off because of these people.
Jenn Cordz 49:12
Absolutely. So wrapping up. Our next episode is actually going to be about predictive analytics and relationship intelligence, which should be a really great topics, topic. And David, and I’ll dive deeper into that next week. Just as a reminder, you can join us in the Forum, it’s nourgroup.com/forum. It’s our private online community that other leaders and executives are there and having conversations about these topics that we talked about, but then also other challenges that they may be presented with in their own businesses.
So if you’re not part of the Forum, please join us there. And you can watch the replay of this on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, we also turn it into a podcast so if you listen on Spotify or Apple and all the resources that we presented today will also be available in the Forum. And David’s book, Relationship Economics is available now. And so if you are interested in learning more about this topic or any of the things that we’ve learned talked about previously, they are all in that book. And it’s available now wherever you buy books. So we thank you for joining us and we hope you tune in next week at noon Eastern for another episode of intelligent and to Intelligent Growth live. And on behalf of my business partner, David, we thank you for joining us.
David Nour 50:35
Thanks, everybody. See you next time. All the best. Bye bye.
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